Transcript — Terre Haute City Council, 2026-05-07

Machine transcription of the recording of the Terre Haute City Council meeting on 2026-05-07, aligned to the video timeline. This is not the official record — the clerk's minutes are, and this is unreviewed automatic speech recognition that mis-hears names and numbers. Check anything that matters against the recording.

Each line is stamped with its position in the recording, both as a clock time and as [t=SECONDS]. Those are the same seconds the archive's source links use: open the recording and add &t=<seconds> to jump to any line.

Transcript

0:00:00 [t=0] Speaker 0: Page 2. 10 p.m. to 10 p.m. Yeah, I haven't briefly read that. I can think about it twice until it says something. Sunday through Saturday? Correct.
0:00:12 [t=12] Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about the news fest and stuff. And then one of those to stop the noise by like 11.
0:00:18 [t=18] Speaker 6: Sunday through Saturday.
0:00:21 [t=21] Speaker 5: It's not so bad. So, is that seven days a week or not? Yeah.
0:00:25 [t=25] Speaker 10: It's Friday night. It means it's 10 p.m. Every night.
0:00:29 [t=29] Speaker 14: I didn't even think twice about it.
0:00:36 [t=36] Speaker 22: It might be like the terminal and the copper, I'm hoping.
0:00:46 [t=46] Speaker 20: Yeah.
0:00:48 [t=48] Speaker 25: And hopefully if it starts getting worse, it will get worse. I mean, that's my hope.
0:00:54 [t=54] Speaker 28: Yeah.
0:00:56 [t=56] Speaker 5: And you know, you think about it in terms of supporting festivals and things like that.
0:01:00 [t=60] Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, the North Festival, it just depends. I mean, some of them are the first Friday stuff that we're doing.
0:01:06 [t=66] Speaker 20: The Department of Health has a problem when they have their chili things. They like to keep coming after those in.
0:01:11 [t=71] Speaker 34: Yeah, you know that? I do. You know those guys.
0:01:15 [t=75] Speaker 35: I didn't think about that, the chili group, huh?
0:01:18 [t=78] Speaker 36: The one in Firefly.
0:01:19 [t=79] Speaker 37: They like to stick around after that. I wonder if you're not on the last question,
0:01:34 [t=94] Speaker 41: you need to adjourn for George. We'll be here until next week.
0:01:39 [t=99] Speaker 42: Hey, Lerita won't be here until next week.
0:01:45 [t=105] Speaker 49: So, oh, I see what it is. So I've got all my stuff from next. from meeting the next. All right.
0:02:20 [t=140] Speaker 61: At this time I call to order the regular meeting of the Terre Haute City Council on Thursday, May 7, 2026. First item on the agenda is a moment of silence and pledge of allegiance to the flag. This evening the pledge will be led by Councilperson Amanda Thompson.
0:02:41 [t=161] Speaker 67: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which
0:02:55 [t=175] Speaker 70: it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice, proud.
0:03:11 [t=191] Speaker 72: Michelle, will you please call the roll time?
0:03:12 [t=192] Speaker 73: Councilperson Azar, Councilperson Bowen. Present. Councilperson Chalos.
0:03:17 [t=197] Speaker 75: I am present.
0:03:19 [t=199] Speaker 76: Councilperson Devon. Here. Councilperson Dingle. Present. Councilperson Hinton. Present. Councilperson Loudermilk. Present. Councilperson Nation. Here. Councilperson Thompson. Here. Eight are present, one is absent.
0:03:31 [t=211] Speaker 79: Councilperson Azar did contact us before
0:03:33 [t=213] Speaker 61: and said he had a prior engagement, couldn't be here this evening. At this time, we reserve up to 30 minutes of time for public comment on items not on the agenda. We have a signup sheet. We ask that you please come to the podium, state your name for the record, limit your comments to three minutes, and direct your comments towards the council. First person on the signup sheet is Kevin Southwood.
0:04:00 [t=240] Speaker 84: I'm Kevin Southwood, and I'm gonna issue a challenge to Vigo County and Terre Haute, the hierarchy, the top 10%, the highest earners and the highest learners, I'm going to challenge you to 10 positives you have to deliver in 60 days. Every month you have to deliver five positives. Two months you'll have to deliver 10. I'll do the same thing.
0:04:27 [t=267] Speaker 86: I'm not a very educated person, but I've got a hell of an imagination, and I'm pretty creative. And I'm going to give the 10 positives, and if the top echelon of our city and county won't participate and won't give 10 positives on their own, they're showing the rest of the city and county below them that they're basically showing you disrespect and utter contempt. That means they don't think that you're worth the trouble of their trouble or their time to give you a positive. The reason why I said that is because I think that if you're going to vote, if you're going to run for office,
0:05:04 [t=304] Speaker 86: It will be a requirement in the primary. And in this general election coming up, they ought to have to give a positive. So 60 days before the election, people can talk about them. They can have time to decipher. They can see which ones they like. And that's going to push an entire new voting system in our country. If you want my vote, you're going to have to give me a positive before that vote. So if you give a lackluster or subpar positive, your competition is going to beat you. And effectively, every candidate or incumbent, you're going to put nails into your own coffin,
0:05:41 [t=341] Speaker 86: and we're going to get rid of you, and you're going to die off. You're going to produce a positive or not. And I think that it's going to kill Citizens United and all their PAC money because they're never going to deliver citizens any positives because they're donors with dollars. and this country belongs to we the people 100%, and there's no gray area on that. And so I'm going to challenge the hierarchy of Terre Haute, highest earners, highest earners, you're going to give us 10 positives, or the people in the ISU or Rose-Hulman,
0:06:15 [t=375] Speaker 86: if they are not going to participate and prove that they can give 10 positives, what does that tell their own students? That's an included vital county school system as well. If you're not going to deliver the positives, what validation do you have as being the teacher if you're not even willing to give positives? It doesn't have to be about politics. It could be about anything. It doesn't have to be about Terre Haute or Beigle County. But they do have to be 10 positives. And I think that would be a great lesson for really the entire country.
0:06:47 [t=407] Speaker 86: It would be better than all the reality shows put together because this is real life, and it could affect and change our entire voting system on how people look at their vote. It would cause almost like a mass drug-induced mindset because the people would be salivating. They'd be drilling out their mouths for which one of the policies is going to be the one that I want, and it's going to force a complete shakeup of our voting system. And I don't see how any other way it can go about it except to demand the policies for your vote. If the politicians want something out of you,
0:07:26 [t=446] Speaker 86: they have to put something in before they demand your vote.
0:07:32 [t=452] Speaker 88: Can I ask him a question? Can I ask him a question?
0:07:35 [t=455] Speaker 90: Mr. Southwood? Mr. Southwood? I have a question for you.
0:07:39 [t=459] Speaker 92: So, I mean, I love that idea. I think actions speak a lot of the words, and I think everybody that says so on this council probably agrees with that. But sometimes the definition of what's a positive, can you give us an idea of what a positive looks like to you and something that you might be going to do moving forward? The second question is, did you say top 10% of earners or learners? Both of them. Okay, because I don't think any of us are in the top 10% of earners in this community, but we'll go ahead.
0:08:07 [t=487] Speaker 95: Well, my first positive would be where I'm going to try to talk people into demanding a positive.
0:08:16 [t=496] Speaker 86: Now, I know there's a lot of politicians that try to get positives out anyway, but whenever you elect somebody to a positive, they'd be basically, they would be a must. I'm going to have to make sure during my election cycle that I'm going to have to deliver positives back to the people, or I can't vote for it.
0:08:33 [t=513] Speaker 98: What's the example of a positive?
0:08:34 [t=514] Speaker 86: Well, a positive would be if you're having all these elections and you're not getting any outcome and we're being price gouged to death on everything and they're not willing to try to do something to fix it, one thing about it is you could have people in Beigle County and Terre Haute. You'd have all the people of industry, the banks, the city workers, the county workers, the heads of all these offices, all these service industries. They would say, we're only going to take what a person's Social Security gets.
0:09:15 [t=555] Speaker 86: Because instead of asking for 4% or something like that, Social Security is getting 2%. What you're telling everybody is that you put yourself above people with Social Security, and the Social Security people, they're being price gouged out of their homes because of all this crooked evaluation all over the state. My house is worth now an eighth of a million dollars. There's no way in hell it's worth that. But they're going to try to price goug me out of that. But if you think about trying to make sure that they deliver a positive, like how would you stop that price gadget?
0:09:55 [t=595] Speaker 86: Well, we all ought to make a stand at least for a couple years to show that we either, you're going to stick up for the people or you're going to choose to stick it to the people. And if you stick with the Social Security, I'm no better than a person that's on Social Security is. So I'm not going to take my raise, at least for two years, to make example for the rest of America to say, if a poor area like Beigle County and Terre Haute can make a stand and stick up for the people, why isn't our city and why isn't our county willing to do the same thing?
0:10:30 [t=630] Speaker 86: And that would force a lot of this price gouging because a lot of people are peed off about all this price gouging because capitalism is a system that's broken. It has zero checks. It has zero bounces in it. And it's for the rich people, just to price gouge everybody. And you don't have – if you did that to anybody in the street, I would be in prison. and they just get away with the lock, stock, and barrel. Just like Citizens United, they have donors. They're donors with dollars, and just like this last election, this primary we had,
0:11:08 [t=668] Speaker 86: they spent almost $14 million, where it normally is $2 million, and that's all over President Trump's revenge and his hate for having a right to vote. They talk about all the problems of our voting system. Well, you know, they're the biggest cheaters and the biggest voter thefts there are.
0:11:29 [t=689] Speaker 100: Thank you.
0:11:31 [t=691] Speaker 61: Thank you, Mr. Southland.
0:11:32 [t=692] Speaker 100: Thank you.
0:11:33 [t=693] Speaker 61: Is there anyone else from the public who wishes to make public comment at this time? Hearing none, we'll close public comment. Corrections to the journal from the preceding meeting.
0:11:46 [t=706] Speaker 104: One moment.
0:11:48 [t=708] Speaker 110: Mr. President. Yes, Councilor President.
0:12:04 [t=724] Speaker 112: I almost responded during Mr. Southwood's time, but I didn't.
0:12:12 [t=732] Speaker 116: But as I was listening to him, I started writing things.
0:12:17 [t=737] Speaker 118: to think about these issues in terms of the city council and city government and the leadership team that we have in city government. He asked for ten. I got eight city leaderships at the top of it. I think that we are lucky to have a mayor who is trying to get stuff done. And I applaud this council for my 23 years of being involved in city government.
0:12:45 [t=765] Speaker 119: This is by far the best relationship that I've seen between a mayor and a council.
0:12:52 [t=772] Speaker 122: Four institutions of higher learning, one university, Indiana State University, Rose Holman Institute of Technology, St. Mary of the Woods College, and Ivy Tech.
0:13:00 [t=780] Speaker 118: The parks and trail system, which we have a role in. We have an ascendant downtown, a revitalizing downtown. We've got a long way to go. I wouldn't say that it's done, but it's better. We have a thriving arts community, a hundred year old Terre Haute Symphony Orchestra, a community theater, also a hundred years old, Arts Illiana, the Swope Art Museum, Vigo County Public Library with its three Vigo County branches serving the citizens, Wabash River and its attendant riverfront, the work that we're doing to try to revitalize the riverfront,
0:13:34 [t=814] Speaker 128: make it an asset, more of an asset. And also we're a healthcare hub for this whole area.
0:13:39 [t=819] Speaker 130: We don't really have that much to do with the health care part as part of city government.
0:13:47 [t=827] Speaker 118: But we have a role in, if not taking care, if not funding, at least supporting and doing things that help our four institutions of higher learning. And then all the other things are much more direct positives that I would offer to Mr. Southwood as being eight of ten. And I realize that that sounds like boosterism and pretty typical, you know, positive Terre Haute stuff. But that's what you're asking for. And that's
0:14:23 [t=863] Speaker 119: what I think I have to offer anyway. And sorry, you've already spent your time so you don't get a response to this, Kevin. But I yield.
0:14:31 [t=871] Speaker 134: Thank you.
0:14:32 [t=872] Speaker 135: There were no corrections, Mr. President.
0:14:36 [t=876] Speaker 137: Thank you. Communication from the mayor.
0:14:37 [t=877] Speaker 139: All right. Hey, good evening, Council President Dinkle, members of the Terre Haute City Council. I'll be rather brief today, which means I'm not going to be brief because you have one thing on the agenda. First and foremost, okay, city cleanup goes well. We obviously have a need for more large item removal.
0:14:59 [t=899] Speaker 142: So now from May till August, the second Saturday of every month is the Sanitary District second Saturday cleanup. That's a mouthful. Basically at the street department we're going to have some dumpsters, we're going to have some employees, and you will be able to drop off items. I highly encourage folks to use the system of 311. It is easier. We will go to where your trash gets picked up to do it. But we do have individuals who want to be able to drive and do it. We've got the cleanup that Vigo County Solid Waste Management does once a month as well.
0:15:33 [t=933] Speaker 142: But this summer, we're going to have two opportunities every single month. So that's over at the Street Department by Deming Street, second Saturday of every month from 8 a.m. to noon or until dumpsters are full. Additionally, we have our Wednesday Trash Task Force that does run, honestly, it runs like March until October, November. We play some weather games around November through March. So that is back in operational. That's been continuing to get going. We are impressed with the results there.
0:16:04 [t=964] Speaker 142: It seems like no matter where we send them, how many times we send them, they're going to find something.
0:16:09 [t=969] Speaker 147: And that's good. And I really want to thank the Waste of Water Department for the work that they're doing.
0:16:15 [t=975] Speaker 139: We had our Regional Employment Expo a couple of weeks ago. That's our second time doing that. Workforce development continues to be a top priority.
0:16:23 [t=983] Speaker 142: If you have not, I do encourage you all to reach out to Greg Lee at WorkOne, spend 30 minutes with him, learn about what his kind of state quasi-government department does.
0:16:35 [t=995] Speaker 139: But they have really helped us when it comes to employment in this community. We have identified some gaps that are not because of him by any means.
0:16:42 [t=1002] Speaker 142: There are gaps that we see across like the Midwest, the Rust Belt, and the South, where as you transition from manufacturing to advanced manufacturing, it requires upskilling your workforce. That's degrees.
0:16:56 [t=1016] Speaker 139: That's your Ivy Tech style programs. So there is a conversation being had about what more we can do when it comes to work one. I really encourage you guys to spend some time with him because I'd imagine a lot of your constituents do need help when it comes to employment.
0:17:10 [t=1030] Speaker 142: and he can give you the rundown of what they offer and why. You might have noticed our Ray Park trail continues to be completed.
0:17:22 [t=1042] Speaker 139: Obviously, the portion that's done is a portion people see so far, but there's still a lot more to be done. We're very happy to partner with the county and the state on that project. That's coming to completion. On the note of Ray Park, I'm going to tell you end of July,
0:17:36 [t=1056] Speaker 142: and it's probably going to be October with my luck. But that was a very old building. It is still coming along quite well. Once we're done with that and the trail finishes, the next conversation is tennis as well as the entryway.
0:17:48 [t=1068] Speaker 139: So Ray Park continues to be a growing park with more amenities and more improvements.
0:17:54 [t=1074] Speaker 142: The YMCA renovation, great story, by the way, David, in the paper about that. Phase three is complete. Phase, sorry, phase one is complete. That's the natatorium. So the city funded that. The city also has a million dollars that you guys push through with the casino gaming revenue, and that goes to the total of $11.6 million that is being discussed for Phase 2 and Phase 3. They're starting to stage things there. The contractor list has been sent out and finalized. Most of the contractors are union, so most of them are okay,
0:18:28 [t=1108] Speaker 142: but we are working through a handful where union contractors did not really have the opportunity to bid. So we're going to work that directly with Garmong. I have been in contact with Joe Bulk as well. And it's some of the smaller unions that often do get overlooked, unfortunately. So we are dedicating some staff time to that conversation.
0:18:49 [t=1129] Speaker 139: Sorry, my phone's locking and normally I write this down. All right.
0:18:54 [t=1134] Speaker 142: Our CCMG, Community Crossing Grant Program, we are completing that in our sidewalk work. Sidewalk work, Tranche 1 is almost complete. once Tranche 1 ends, that's when paving picks up. And then Tranche 2 is the back half of the summer for sidewalks. What that means for all of you, the 2026 paving plan that is on the city's website, that stuff's going to start within probably the next three weeks. And then it's going to be a very interesting three to four months of road paving. You're going to get calls. Streets do get closed for road paving, but it's okay because we
0:19:28 [t=1168] Speaker 142: We need to continue to improve our infrastructure in the city of Terre Haute.
0:19:35 [t=1175] Speaker 139: We did complete five demolitions in April. Six more have been released, and wastewater is going to do five additional.
0:19:44 [t=1184] Speaker 142: So we're probably going to take down ten residential properties when it comes to the month of May. We did make progress, obviously, at Chauncey Rose with the Indiana National Guard. They're currently there taking that down to do a training event, and then now we're just responsible for hauling away the remaining debris. So we're working with the property owner, the National Guard, and the city on that large project. We did make some headway on a commercial property over by the mall that has been condemned, and we expect to see movement within the next few weeks,
0:20:14 [t=1214] Speaker 142: and we're thankful for the work that City Legal did there. That covers blight removal. Housing, the lots on Liberty that Thrive came and briefed you all two months ago, That general contractor has been finalized. They are hoping to get started within the next two weeks, and their goal still remains to be about two-thirds of that project done before September. So there's 30 lots there. Thrive did receive two grant submissions, one in and around that Locus area by Liberty, and then the other is the ISU lots that we had brought to you guys earlier.
0:20:47 [t=1247] Speaker 142: So expect a lot of movement in that neighborhood. but we feel confident that we can actually hit the goal, which is 100 housing units in there, which has not seen private investment in almost 20 years. So we're proud of the work being done when it comes to housing, as well as blight removal. Obviously, the Terra Vista Glen Phase 3 project continues to move along. And then the Terrytown Southern Acres East is complete. Now they're on West. And then we will work with Southern Company, as we discussed, a residential TIF for the, I say third phase, but it's really a separate project for Terrytown.
0:21:22 [t=1282] Speaker 142: So a lot of work being done when it comes to single-family housing, multifamily housing. We've had some conversations and meetings as it pertains to some properties along the river. Nothing is there yet where we can bring you something tangible. But we will, give me probably four more weeks, and then I think we'll have some projects that we'll be able to begin public discussion about and some possible funding or blight elimination of Lilly dollars to help. On the note of Lilly, something I want to talk to you all about is the Indiana Theater. I enjoyed your comments about the arts.
0:21:59 [t=1319] Speaker 163: So Lilly a few years ago gave Governor Holcomb, I think it's $65 million, Kristen, the arts
0:22:07 [t=1327] Speaker 142: grant. It's $65 million to do the arts and culture grant program. General Holcomb was termed out of office, Kevin O'Brien came back in, he has tinkered with the program and that's helped us because we did apply for funding for the Indiana Theater. So what we're going to look to do there, CIB owns it. We went over to Bloomington where 15ish years ago a theater downtown was falling apart. Government came in, they used the redevelopment commission, they stabilized the building with some construction dollars. a non-profit is created to really run and manage the theater. Fast forward 15 years
0:22:48 [t=1368] Speaker 142: later in the Bloomington Theater, the Buzz Kirk Chumley, about 5% of their revenue is government. The rest is sponsorships, advertisements, ticket sales. So that's our model that we're going to try to follow once we save the building through this grant program. The CIB is looking at several funding mechanisms, one of which is a bond, but we think we've got other ways to kind of borrow from within the county and then pay back different elements of the county as the CIB through the food and beverage tax. So that plan, I'm so happy, has finally gone in.
0:23:21 [t=1401] Speaker 142: It does leverage a lot of our arts nonprofits and has them potentially relocating to the Indiana Theater for their office space with those two commercial office spaces along 7th Street to actually create kind of like a one-stop shop for some of the arts nonprofits that we have in the the community and it is right across the street from where? The Swope Art Museum. So we're really trying to synchronize that piece and I think we should find out hopefully within the next month but long story short we have a grant application in which is big. We did
0:23:54 [t=1434] Speaker 142: do some brick work already, the CIB did and I'm happy that we're starting to actually see something on that old building downtown because it's part of our downtown revitalization is to save what we can and this is one of the few funding mechanisms left that we really did pursue. On the note of the historical conversation, I did meet with Tommy Kleckner. He gave me a list of companies that can do the survey to update like which buildings are historic because that's not been done a long, long time. So that RFP we're hoping to get through the Board of Works in May, if not it will be in June.
0:24:30 [t=1470] Speaker 142: allows us to publicly advertise that we are looking for a firm to come in and update our historic inventory, then we can have further conversations down the line. With that, I will take any questions and I apologize, I have one other update. We are going to make some short-term changes to Chapter 10 when it comes to zoning, specifically around ADUs, accessory dwelling units, and reducing some of our setback requirements so it's easier to build in the city limits. Jason's been very proactive on that. That has opened Pandora's box, though, of zoning.
0:25:04 [t=1504] Speaker 142: And I am going to pursue an objective, independent firm outside of Terre Haute. I know we all like to keep it local, but for me, if we're doing a legal rewrite of zoning, it should be done by a firm outside of Terre Haute. Because theoretically, a local attorney could rewrite zoning and use that to benefit their practice. I'm not saying that would happen, but to take that possibility away, we are starting to explore contracting out a rewrite of zoning to develop a pro-growth style code that keeps in factors that we had all discussed, whether that's historic preservation, stormwater,
0:25:42 [t=1542] Speaker 142: wastewater infrastructure, electricity, street parking, non-street parking. Council of the Nation and I did work on the ISU lots about what we wanted to see with some of those housing standards, housing guidelines, how we can try to get some, if you've got an alley, can you pull in off the alley and park there to really get away from just stacking up cars on the street? That's the level of detail that we want to go when we write zoning. So it's very clear of what we can and sometimes can't do in our city. So we're starting that process.
0:26:13 [t=1573] Speaker 142: I'm going to put an asterisk because that is like an 18-month process. It's going to take a long time, but it's better to do it a deliberate way because a lot of our zoning has not been touched in decades. With that, I'll stand by for any questions.
0:26:26 [t=1586] Speaker 169: If not, I'll let you carry on with your very small agenda today, and I just had to take up seven minutes. Thank you. I rounded.
0:26:36 [t=1596] Speaker 172: Councilperson Nation.
0:26:38 [t=1598] Speaker 116: Thank you, Mayor Sackman.
0:26:41 [t=1601] Speaker 118: All the way back to the beginning, second Saturday cleanup, e-waste, tires?
0:26:47 [t=1607] Speaker 175: Tires, yes. E-waste, no.
0:26:49 [t=1609] Speaker 118: Okay. TVs?
0:26:51 [t=1611] Speaker 169: TVs we take, we set aside in a different area and put in a different bin. So yes to TVs.
0:26:59 [t=1619] Speaker 177: You have to pay $20 to drop off a TV?
0:27:01 [t=1621] Speaker 178: You don't have to pay $20, no, for this one.
0:27:04 [t=1624] Speaker 118: That's an important thing for the public to know. Ray Park. You know, I drive by Ray Park all the time on 7th Street. And I see the trail going in, and I planted a bunch of those trees along 7th Street. That's what I'm really looking at. But first I see, before I see the trail or the trees, I see all the utility wires hanging along the edge of Ray Park. And it's interesting to me because those utility wires, they seem to be cable, but I can't tell. They're buried everywhere else.
0:27:42 [t=1662] Speaker 180: And I wonder why they're not buried along the public right-of-way of our park.
0:27:45 [t=1665] Speaker 182: That's a good question. And this does open another can of worms, but I would like to explain.
0:27:52 [t=1672] Speaker 142: There are some municipalities that wrote their code that said your electric providers have to bury their lines. That did lead to an Indiana State Supreme Court case. One of the counter arguments to that, because at surface level I read that and I thought that's a great idea. We should bury our lines. One of the counter arguments is when you have so many private electric companies, they will use the code that says you have to bury lines and they'll use it to trigger additional rate increases. So this is one of the few times I'm going to say this.
0:28:26 [t=1706] Speaker 142: This is a conversation that I've slowly been having with the legislator and I do want the state's support on because if different cities start mandating this, not like Duke Energy covers more than just Terre Haute. So theoretically you can make the argument that a rate payer not in Terre Haute would have to subsidize the local Terre Haute code of varying lines. And so we are trying to solve that argument. And it has been very slow. The municipality who's done this, I think it was Franklin and Carmel. I know for sure it was Carmel. I can't remember if it was Franklin.
0:28:59 [t=1739] Speaker 142: What we have been doing is Jim, our right-of-way inspector, is very big on if you see a downed line, a down cord it is more often than not not duke energy it's actually usually you know your spectrums your frontiers call that in he goes he spends the time to figure out whose cable is and he gets it removed that doesn't solve the question that you brought up but it is kind of one of our short-term band-aids of addressing some of those cables because they are they're really bad in some of the alleys councilman nation you go through some of the alleys and it's it's a lot worse than
0:29:35 [t=1775] Speaker 185: the park.
0:29:36 [t=1776] Speaker 118: Yeah, and I see and accept the existence of the above ground utilities in the alleys. But when we're spending a lot of money to try to upgrade this park and the most visible side of it has a bunch of utilities that are like, you know, in plain view when they're not in plain view across the street at the high school, over at the hospital, anywhere else along that corridor. It makes me wonder if this is just like a taking advantage of the city thing. And again, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. These aren't electrical lines.
0:30:16 [t=1816] Speaker 119: This is your frontier and your spectrum and your cable lines. At least that's what it looks like to me, but I'm no expert.
0:30:24 [t=1824] Speaker 182: Let me do a drive by and then get back to you with a more detailed answer.
0:30:28 [t=1828] Speaker 142: Because, you know, being the downtown councilman, downtown is like one of our best examples of better electric style utilities because they're predominantly buried. Out east is starting to be a better answer because as we do new infrastructure with like the bond that you all passed last year, those lines are going in underground. New neighborhoods, they put them in underground. But there are several large pockets within the city where it's like, who's going to fit the bill, right? It's that Spider-Man meme. So it's been a very frustrating conversation.
0:31:01 [t=1861] Speaker 189: I do empathize with the utility on this one note.
0:31:06 [t=1866] Speaker 118: Well, I'm just bringing it up because it occurs to me every time I drive through there. And I've never really gotten an explanation for why it's that way. But what I do remember, and you kind of alluded to it, is that as the city does projects, often at the end those lines are buried through working with the utility. And from conversations years ago with city engineers, they basically said, hey look, all we've got to do is schedule it out, tell them we want those underground. And that happens like a decade later. But I'm just suggesting that as we invest in Ray Park,
0:31:48 [t=1908] Speaker 118: we might be having those conversations with whoever's lines those are,
0:31:51 [t=1911] Speaker 197: those are so we can see them go away in a decade when it's time to repave that trail.
0:31:55 [t=1915] Speaker 142: One request we do have in for Duke Energy is they did a good, they call it resiliency, like a resiliency program in West Terre Haute. They used their area median income to go in and bury some lines just with storms as they increase in the Wabash Valley. We have put in a request for the inner city of Terre Haute to eventually pop up on that list. I don't have a date for that because they have to spread them out over their service area x amount of times. But I will see if I can loop in the park in that. You know, I know our state legislator
0:32:29 [t=1949] Speaker 155: likes to cough sometimes when they draw maps, so maybe I'll cough too when I draw my utility
0:32:33 [t=1953] Speaker 119: map. Thanks for everybody, not just the mayor, but thanks for your patience with me. I yield.
0:32:39 [t=1959] Speaker 65: I do want to say one thing regarding the A&E theater. I'm really happy to hear that happy to hear that that's the approach the CIB is taking. This, you know, stabilize, get it ready, pass it off to a nonprofit to manage it. That's what I've been advocating for for years as somebody who's spent my career in arts management and running theaters for a good portion of that. And that's why I wrote a letter of support for the grant. So I really hope we get it. I drive by it every day and hope someday it'll be thriving, a wonderful performing arts center. Thank you.
0:33:15 [t=1995] Speaker 207: With regard to the Chapter 10, is it only going to be looking at zoning or any other pieces of Chapter 10?
0:33:26 [t=2006] Speaker 189: We are trying to do a full Chapter 10 rewrite. Here's the problem. When you do a Chapter 10 rewrite, it triggers a legal review of the rest of the city code
0:33:36 [t=2016] Speaker 142: that references Chapter 10. So what I am trying to do is time it out to where when that rewrite is complete, it's complete in a summer. And the reason I say summer is our great legal interns. Anytime we have interns and our interns are starting in two weeks, the productivity of City Hall really does increase. A lot of these college students are phenomenal. One of the interns we have is finishing his Ph.D. and we hope he comes back to ISU to teach. But we are trying to synchronize this to when we have some of our intern assistants because once Chapter 10 is rewritten,
0:34:10 [t=2050] Speaker 142: it's a huge headache for like Michelle and the city clerk's office because there are so many sections within your city code that reference a subsection of chapter 10. So we can't just bring you a rewrite of 10. We would literally bring you a rewrite of 10, and then an attaching document would be 4, 6, and any other section that references 10, striking out where it references and putting in the new location of the code. Requires a manual revision. And if anyone says AI, if you put it into AI, it actually does not catch everything.
0:34:42 [t=2082] Speaker 142: So it's a full manual review. The technology is not quite caught up to just how complicated this is.
0:34:49 [t=2089] Speaker 215: Thank you. Yes, ma'am.
0:34:54 [t=2094] Speaker 218: Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Reports from city officials.
0:35:00 [t=2100] Speaker 220: There are none.
0:35:01 [t=2101] Speaker 61: Reports from Board of Public Works and Safety.
0:35:04 [t=2104] Speaker 223: There are none. Reports from standing committees.
0:35:07 [t=2107] Speaker 224: There are none.
0:35:08 [t=2108] Speaker 222: Reports from non-standing committees. There are none. are none items previously tabled there are none tax abatements for confirmation there are none
0:35:16 [t=2116] Speaker 225: items on second reading there are none items on first reading general ordinance 5 2026 amending city code chapter 4 article 26 designate outdoor refreshment areas as a reminder you must vote to
0:35:27 [t=2127] Speaker 231: take action petitioner good evening mr president members of the city council michael wright and and McKenzie Johnson with the Terre Haute City Legal.
0:35:39 [t=2139] Speaker 232: We are here tonight to present to you General Ordinance 5,
0:35:43 [t=2143] Speaker 231: which is a rewrite of the designated outdoor refreshment ordinance that we had previously submitted to you. I would thank McKenzie and Jesse Tohill. I know they've been in coordination with a lot of you city council members in the Chamber of Commerce and overseeing this rewrite and we're here to answer any questions.
0:36:15 [t=2175] Speaker 65: Is there anyone from the public who wishes to comment on General Ordinance 5-2026?
0:36:25 [t=2185] Speaker 239: Good evening. Kristen Craig from the Terre Haute Chamber of Commerce. Just quickly, I want to thank the legal team, especially McKenzie, for doing so much work on this ordinance. It's been really a priority for our downtown Terre Haute group, for many of the businesses downtown to see this happen. So very excited to see it finally moving forward. Thank you.
0:36:47 [t=2207] Speaker 240: Anybody else from the public wish a comment? Council?
0:36:59 [t=2219] Speaker 244: Councilperson Latimer.
0:37:03 [t=2223] Speaker 248: Mike, I just know that Councilman Azar had a lot since he has a business there and Mr. Nation is from downtown so he can probably remember some of the issues that we were addressing.
0:37:16 [t=2236] Speaker 249: So, I mean, I know Councilman Azar is not here. You didn't hear any more from him regarding...
0:37:22 [t=2242] Speaker 231: regarding McKinsey could definitely speak more to that but I know one of the primary concerns that was addressed preliminarily was the timing and that's what I was going to ask. Yeah so there in McKinsey you can talk to speak to that.
0:37:37 [t=2257] Speaker 252: Because we were just discussing that to 10 p.m. I didn't know if we had extended that for...
0:37:44 [t=2264] Speaker 256: Good afternoon specifically to that question the major provisions of change where the public safety plan were implemented and then the sanitation plan was also implemented and exhibits were added in regards to both of those and then also the major change was really just the guideline in regards to restriction of hours and when that would happen this will affect business owners in the downtown area but only to the capacity of saying whether they are participating or are not participating reference to the signage that will be
0:38:15 [t=2295] Speaker 256: required for those participating is included in the packet as well as exhibit C-4 and as you can see there's several different ones so if someone wishes not to participate they can indicate that and during those hours it will allow for more festivities to occur as well as not special provisions and special event permitting needed and that was the main concern in regards to the changes and we did send out letters to all business owners in regards to this and had several conversations and everyone was in favor of the hour change.
0:38:49 [t=2329] Speaker 261: Councilperson Nation.
0:38:57 [t=2337] Speaker 263: Councilperson Nation.
0:38:58 [t=2338] Speaker 118: McKenzie, thanks for answering that the businesses, if I understood you right, the businesses liked 10 p.m. Is that a fair assessment? That is correct. Okay. I'm looking at the map, Exhibit D, and I see that the map kind of touches Cherry Street in some places and goes around it in others. My question is, at the west end of the map, the corner of Fifth and Cherry, the white block, where in the ground floor you've got roly-poly and Fifth Street Nutrition. If one of those storefronts were to become a restaurant or a bar that wanted to participate in the Dora, they're in, right?
0:39:52 [t=2392] Speaker 118: The line goes down the front of the building and not the middle of the street or the sidewalk or whatever?
0:40:01 [t=2401] Speaker 274: Yes, that is correct.
0:40:02 [t=2402] Speaker 118: Okay. I don't think any of us really knows what the future holds for the building on that same block at the north end between 5th Street and 4th Street, which is now ISU's bookstore and the ISU Foundation. As I understand it, that's a privately owned building and and it could become anything. So I guess that prompts the question about, for example, if that building were to become a big restaurant or something that said, yeah, we want to participate
0:40:44 [t=2444] Speaker 122: in this Dora too, then what would the process be? Would the council be asked to amend the
0:40:48 [t=2448] Speaker 256: map? Yes, that is correct. And then applications of the ATC would need to be submitted in order to modify our map as well as our participants.
0:40:58 [t=2458] Speaker 118: So it's just a paperwork thing? Yes, correct. Would that require council action also?
0:41:05 [t=2465] Speaker 194: It would. Okay. Thank you, I yield.
0:41:10 [t=2470] Councilperson DeVon.
0:41:15 [t=2475] Speaker 284: If there be no further discussion among the council, I'll make a motion that we approve General Ordinance 5, 2026. I'm sorry.
0:41:27 [t=2487] Speaker 285: Can you take action?
0:41:28 [t=2488] Speaker 287: Oh, my mistake. That we take action on General Ordinance 5, 2026. Second.
0:41:34 [t=2494] Speaker 290: It's been moved by Councilperson DeBond, seconded by Councilperson Latimer, that we take action on General Ordinance 5, 2026. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, say nay. We may now take action on General Ordinance 5, 2026.
0:41:51 [t=2511] Speaker 222: Councilperson DeBond.
0:41:52 [t=2512] Speaker 294: I'll move that we pass General Ordinance 5, 2026. Second.
0:41:58 [t=2518] Speaker 290: It's been moved by Councilperson DeVaughn, seconded by Councilperson Loudermilk, that General Ordinance 5, 2026 be approved. All those in favor say aye.
0:42:06 [t=2526] Speaker 296: Aye.
0:42:07 [t=2527] Speaker 290: Opposed say nay. The motion passes. General Ordinance 5, 2026 is adopted.
0:42:12 [t=2532] Speaker 297: Thank you so much.
0:42:13 [t=2533] Speaker 298: Thanks, Mackenzie.
0:42:15 [t=2535] Speaker 225: Next item. Now we begin our CF1 forms. Thanks. Everyone's favorite time of year.
0:42:23 [t=2543] Speaker 65: First we have a CF1 form, Resolution 6-2016 for Guru Krupa Hospitality.
0:42:32 [t=2552] Speaker 225: Your copy in front of you, you will see that it should expire next year. And they do have six additional employees that originally estimated.
0:42:42 [t=2562] Speaker 306: And the salaries are significantly higher. As a reminder, we will need a motion for insubstantial compliance or a motion for not insubstantial compliance. If you find anyone not insubstantial compliance, the hearing will be needed to be held.
0:43:14 [t=2594] Speaker 311: Mr. President. Mr. President.
0:43:17 [t=2597] Speaker 312: Council President Nation.
0:43:18 [t=2598] Speaker 118: There's no discussion. I note that, as Michelle said, it expires next year and it has more employees and higher salaries. So I recommend, or I move that the group of hospitality incorporated with CF1 resident, their CF1 for resolution number 6 2016 be found in substantial compliance.
0:43:46 [t=2626] Speaker 61: Second. It's been moved by Councilperson Nation, seconded by Councilperson Boland,
0:43:51 [t=2631] Speaker 290: that Gruber Krupa's CF1 form for resolution 6 2016 be found in substantial compliance. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Gruber Krupa Hospitality Incorporated is in
0:44:06 [t=2646] Speaker 319: of standard compliance. Next we have price or properties resolution 18 2017.
0:44:16 [t=2656] Speaker 76: They should be expiring as well next year the year after. The total numbers in
0:44:26 [t=2666] Speaker 225: section 3 for actual appear to total correctly. I'm not sure why they put 26
0:44:34 [t=2674] Speaker 306: instead of 28 but they do have nine additional employees than originally estimated.
0:44:41 [t=2681] Speaker 322: Mr. President.
0:44:50 [t=2690] Speaker 207: Mr. President.
0:45:04 [t=2704] Speaker 234: Council President Henson.
0:45:05 [t=2705] Speaker 207: If no more questions, I move that we find price of properties CF1 RS18-2017 in compliance.
0:45:16 [t=2716] Speaker 202: It's been moved by Councilperson Henson, seconded by Councilperson Boland.
0:45:22 [t=2722] Speaker 290: The Price of Property CF1 form, Resolution 18-2017, be found in substantial compliance. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, say aye. The Price of Property CF1 form is in substantial compliance.
0:45:36 [t=2736] Speaker 116: Michelle, do we have a meeting next week?
0:45:41 [t=2741] Speaker 264: Okay.
0:45:42 [t=2742] Speaker 334: Since you brought up the bad news, May 15th is the filing deadline for CF1 forms. So
0:45:49 [t=2749] Speaker 306: we've got two or three in the office we just received in the last day, so I'll have them for next week. But any that are not filed by next Thursday will go on June's agenda. So I think my last count we had over 20 left to be filed.
0:46:07 [t=2767] Speaker 122: And Michelle, can you remind us what the date is by which we need to act on all of those?
0:46:14 [t=2774] Speaker 306: 45 days after the date of filing, you need to find insubstantial compliance or non-insubstantial compliance. And then usually in June you have a decision to make on the ones who did not file.
0:46:29 [t=2789] Thank you.
0:46:30 [t=2790] Speaker 248: Mr. President, can I make a quick announcement? I just want to remind everyone, and he can put it out, that the fallen officer's memorial is tomorrow at the Terre Haute Police Department headquarters at 1030 a.m. If anyone can make it, and that will kick off police week. Thank you.
0:46:47 [t=2807] Speaker 118: Mr. President. Council President Nation. If there's nothing further, I move that we adjourn.
0:46:53 [t=2813] Speaker 348: Second.
0:46:54 [t=2814] Speaker 290: It's been moved by Council President Nation, seconded by Council President Loudameth, that we adjourn. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? City Council stands adjourned. Thank you.